Excellent article on the economics (and myths) of MLB

[PittPanthers90]

And I run a business myself. If I make a profit, period, it's not a backwards model. The model works, no matter what it is. When you run a business, over the course of time you make some people ****ed off and you make some people happy. In the end, if you make money, you succeeded.

If you TRULY believe in Nutting and his spending, then follow his fine business example.

Make your product as crappy as possible for 19 years. heck it won't even take near that long for you to get the point!

[Kipper]

Iconic sports figure who looked to buy the Pirates with the idea of making a MSG type channel. It waas well reported SUPER MARIO!

Mario Lemeaux (in case the nickname escaped you)

You know that the added revenue a Pittsburgh all sports channel would get wouldn't amount to much, right? While the Pirates AND Penguins are paid a certain amount by Root (I dont remember who the parent company is off the top of my head), in this scenerio, Ron Burkle would assume control of having to employ all of the "Root" workers, the technoclogy (cameras, trucks etc...), the studio and the cost to own/rent that and a variety of other things that eats into a bottom line. The only thing that is treally gained here is that 1 guy owns the 2 local teams on that network. He doesn't need the network anymore and in the end it's about ultimate control more than some big increase in revenues.

I can't stress this enough and it;s to the point where your ignorance is starting to become aggrevating... this market is small... I'll repeat it... this market is small. There's no local TV network that can come out of this area that can compete with one in a larger market. What you have now is what you can likely ever have. It can't get bigger because this region is only as large as it is

[vandelay industries]

If you TRULY believe in Nutting and his spending, then follow his fine business example.

Make your product as crappy as possible for 19 years. heck it won't even take near that long for you to get the point!

Did I say I believed in it? Great non sequitur on your part.

Stick to discussing or rebutting, moreso than going for a "bumper sticker moment", and you won't have that problem.

[PittPanthers90]

Did I say I believed in it? Great non sequitur on your part.

Stick to discussing or rebutting, moreso than going for a "bumper sticker moment", and you won't have that problem.

You MUST believe in it, you tout the Nutting line! (or are you truly an Anti at heart but don't want your friends not to like you anymore? )

[PittPanthers90]

I can't stress this enough and it;s to the point where your ignorance is starting to become aggrevating... this market is small... I'll repeat it... this market is small. There's no local TV network that can come out of this area that can compete with one in a larger market. What you have now is what you can likely ever have. It can't get bigger because this region is only as large as it is

The Pens have somewhat of a national following, a major sports network could push that out more generating more interst (not at MSG levels, but a lot more so than Root sports)

[Kipper]

If you TRULY believe in Nutting and his spending, then follow his fine business example.

Make your product as crappy as possible for 19 years. heck it won't even take near that long for you to get the point!

There's a lot of ****ty products out there that people buy all of the time. Remember that when you goto McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's, Taco Bell, drink Absolut, Faygo, buy clothes at any place except for a high end retailer that there's few of in this area...

Step outside of your little bubble. The world is filled with ****ty products and you consume a good 75% or more of them whether you like it or not and whether you want to admit it or not.

You don't understand how business works. You don't have one single clue. You got into this conversation and debate and have run from one debate you've brought up after another as you been chased by either more knowledgable responses or the truth that you know very well but can't admit because you'll get kicked out of the loser's club at Smizik's. Business isn't about making what is the "best" product, business is about making money and if you can make money while skimping on the product, then that is what is done.Now saying that, I'm not suggesting that this is what Bob Nutting is doing. We've seen his "profit" and it's not really much of a profit at all but he's not in the red which is the most important aspect for any business and more importantly because it's not in the red, it is a successful business.... do you want to know what was NOT a successful business? The 1990s Pittsburgh Penguins. To you, they won a lot of games, made the playoffs annually and nd snag a couple of cups, business wise they did exactly what you advocate, they spent money they never had and it dragged them into bankruptcy. Mario and Burkle took over the team but that team was one foot out the door and likely gone had Commisioner Bettman not stepped in and taken it away from Jim Balsillie.

[vandelay industries]

You MUST believe in it, you tout the Nutting line! (or are you truly an Anti at heart but don't want your friends not to like you anymore? )

I tout the Nutting line? You're insane. I make a generalized comment about business, and profits pertaining thereto, as a whole, and somehow that's the Nutting line.

In your warped sense, every single business owner in the country that wants to make a profit (you know, probably 99% of them) is just touting the Nutting line.

You were one of the wastes at Occupy Pittsburgh weren't you?

Anyway, let me know when your great debate skills can get wrapped around my post about tv rights, contracts, and Cuban from the bottom of page 2. I can't wait for the reply, which at this point, and based on your trajectory, will just be a drive-by slogan.

[Kipper]

The Pens have somewhat of a national following, a major sports network could push that out more generating more interst (not at MSG levels, but a lot more so than Root sports)

They don't have a national following. what the hell are you smoking? The Pens have a great local following but they don't have any following nationally. They aren't the Pittsburgh Steelers. On top of that, what the hell are you smoking about a "major sports network"? Where the hell are you making up this crap? There was never going to be a national sports network created.

[vandelay industries]

The Pens have somewhat of a national following, a major sports network could push that out more generating more interst (not at MSG levels, but a lot more so than Root sports)

They don't have a national following. Simply having the most recognizable player, in the least covered of the 4 major sports, doesn't give you a national following. Hell, I'd argue that there's a half dozen or so NASCAR drivers that have bigger national followings than the Penguins as a team.

The Pens are huge locally, but nationally they're a blip.

[exNCite]

Did I say I believed in it? Great non sequitur on your part.

Stick to discussing or rebutting, moreso than going for a "bumper sticker moment", and you won't have that problem.

HaHa. Best line of this thread. Sadly though, he won't understand that either.

[PittPanthers90]

As far as I know, there's been no OSHA complaints or cries of mistreatment of employees.

John Perrato would disagree with this comment.

What's unethical about them exactly?

See arguement: taxpayer stadium and ethical/moral responsibility to actually try to field a real MLB team (not AAAA/AAA team)

[exNCite]

OMG. And it's people like this who actually have the ability to vote. It's no wonder.

[vandelay industries]

John Perrato would disagree with this comment.



See arguement: taxpayer stadium and ethical/moral responsibility to actually try to field a real MLB team (not AAAA/AAA team)

Yeah I did see that and wrote a very lengthy reply and rebuttal. I'd be very interested in one in kind if you disagree with what I said on the subject.

Top of Page 57

http://www.pittsburghsportstavern.co...at-Down-Thread

[Shaker100]

It comes down to this:

Bob Nutting is not a 'deep pockets' owner and refuses to operate the franchise with even a small operating loss. He wants the team to be profitable because that is his business model. Any increase in payroll beyond $60 million is going to cause the bottom line to go into the red. The Milwaukee owner in a smaller market size was able to sustain operating losses with about an $80 million payroll the last few years. His business model was trying to win now and not to worry about sustaining yearly losses. He is also worth much more than Nutting and that is his choice.

What is the answer? Nutting and minority owners would need to sell a majority stake in the team to a random billionaire who doesn't care about sustaining yearly operating losses in pursuit of winning. That may be simplifying the situation but as i see it that is the situation here in Pittsburgh in a 'nutting' shell. Nutting is doing a decent job to the best of his ability in the present situation but he could at least use some additional investors. A long term investment approach involving a higher payroll would mean operating losses but possibly a higher resale value for the team.