Smizik hits an all time low...

[PittFaninVa]

In all the furor last week about the Penguins offer to buy the Pirates, a comment by manager John Russell was almost totally overlooked.
Russell comes across as a quiet, conservative guy. But he’s wild and crazy with some of the things he says. Of course, in making ridiculous statements he’s just taking a lead from his boss, owner Bob Nutting.
Here’s what Russell said about the 2010 Pirates:
``Our talent level has increased tremendously over the past couple years. We are very much looking forward to moving forward with a very talented group of major league players, with very talented players on their way from our system.’’
Keep in mind that Russell is the manager of the Pirates. He has little or nothing to do with the minor-league system. He was talking about the 2010 Pirates when he said the talent level has ``increased tremendously.’’ Sure makes you wonder about his player-evaluation skills.
Here’s some of the players the Pirates have traded since July of 2008:
Jason Bay, Nate McLouth, Xavier Nady, Adam LaRoche, Freddy Sanchez, Jack Wilson, Nyjer Morgan, Ian Snell, Tom Gorzelanny, John Grabow, Sean Burnett.
If Russell wants to say the Pirates might be better in the future than they were in the recent past, that’s fine. But to say the team’s ``talent level has increased tremendously,’’ is an outrageous exaggeration and just another dose of Kool-aid the team likes to ladle out to its fan base.
If the players listed above were still with the Pirates, the team would have a much better chance of winning in 2010 because the team would be more talented.
Has Russell forgotten that the team he’ll start the season with is pretty much the same one that lost 46 of its final 65 games last year -- a 114-loss pace?
The Pirates are estimated to start the season with a payroll under $40 million.
Here are the 2010 salaries of the players the Pirates traded away. The salaries were either negotiated after the end of last year or carried over from deals done with the players in question by the Pirates. In some cases, they figures represent the average of a long-term deal.
Bay, $16.5 million; Sanchez, $6 million; Wilson, $5 million; LaRoche, $4.5 million; McLouth, $4.5 million; Snell, $4.25 million; Grabow, $3.75 million; Nady, $3.3 million; Gorzelanny, $800,000; Burnett, approximately $800,000; Morgan, approximately $500,000.
Those 11 players will earn about $50 million, which is $10 million more than the 25 Pirates will earn.
But why wouldn’t Russell say anything, regardless of how mindless it might be? Some people actually believe it. Besides, he’s doing nothing more than taking the lead from his boss.
Nutting is best know for calling president Frank Coonelly and general manager Neal Huntington ``the single best management team in all of baseball, maybe in all of sports."
And while that might top his all-time list, let’s not forget this oldie but very goodie from 2007, when Nutting said this in a letter to Pirates fans:
``I am energized about our core group of exciting, young, talented players. We have one of the youngest teams in all of baseball and now will be able to keep them together for several years. Coming off last season's second half success, I am confident that this team, under the leadership of Jim Tracy, will continue to improve. I very much look forward to the 2007 season.’’
He was so energized by that core of players that he gave permission for virtually all of them to be traded.
It’s one thing to be positive about the future. It’s something quite else to make outrageous exaggerations that mislead people.
Quite, unassuming John Russell is a master of such tactics.

http://community.post-gazette.com/bl...k/default.aspx


I am now convinced that Bob Smizik is either delusional or probably has some sort of strange vendetta against Pirate management. He bases this whole article in his blog today on the premise of his blatantly incorrect interpretation of a quote by John Russell during Pirate fest.

Russsell’s coment….. “``Our talent level has increased tremendously over the past couple years. We are very much looking forward to moving forward with a very talented group of major league players, with very talented players on their way from our system.’’

Smizik’s interpretation of the above quote “Keep in mind that Russell is the manager of the Pirates. He has little or nothing to do with the minor-league system. He was talking about the 2010 Pirates when he said the talent level has ``increased tremendously.’’

Really Bob…..!! Russell specifically included the minor league talent on the come when he was talking about the overall talent level. It’s in black and white what Russell said and it’s obvious what he meant but you chose not to acknowledge the obvious and write this piece of crap to vilify Pirate management yet again. Hey Bob how did you miss this part of his statement?..... “very talented players on their way from our system”

This is journalism at its lowest from a man with an obvious axe to grind. Bob Smizik if you have to stoop this low to write a negative article about the Pirates you should be ashamed of yourself and the paper you write for should be too.

[buccoray61]

Here’s some of the players the Pirates have traded since July of 2008:
Jason Bay, Nate McLouth, Xavier Nady, Adam LaRoche, Freddy Sanchez, Jack Wilson, Nyjer Morgan, Ian Snell, Tom Gorzelanny, John Grabow, Sean Burnett

Ok, the Pirates had some decent major leaguers.What Smizik failed to mention, was that this group of players was the core of the team that 3 seasons before the 08 trade deadline lost 95,95, and 94 games.
I will admit, that as a fan,the last 2 months of last season was hard,so hard in fact,that I couldn't even watch much. I'm pretty sure that if that group had played together the WHOLE they wouldn't have lost 114 games,I also can't say with any certainty that this group will lead us to the promised land.I do know,that whatever they were doing prior to this wasn't working or ever going to work.

[jnn123]

It's almost like the quote and the article aren't related. He already had everything written and just wanted to tie it to something to make it look like it's relevant to something current. I'm not convinced he ever read the quote.

[Kipper]

By now everyone should know y feelings towards bob Smizik and just about every columnist in the Pittsburgh media

I'm not sure if you joined in the topic (im not even sure what thread it was in and what not) about how the Post-Gazette owned a stake in the Pirates during the McClatchy years and during that time it was really ahrd to find too many negative comments by Bob Smizik towards Dave Littlefield and Kevin McClatchy.

What's interesting about that is that Smizik has ALWAYS been a negaitve columnist. If he's pointing out something it's either negative or some assanine opinion being made to **** a fan base off on purpose (his article about how fans shouldn't boo players is a great example)... I think that this is a problem in general with Pittsburghers. Every fan base here is overly negative and the media in this town is what leads the charge. The public is always influenced by the media as a majority. As long as guys like Bob Smizik, Ron Cook, Ed Bouchette, Gene Collier etc... are unfortunately being paid to spew their opinions the majority of a fan base is going to be a reflection of that...Bob Smizik is a perfect example...

Smizik will lead and then feed off of the negativity that he creates by cherry picking comments and facts and twisting them into what he wants others to believe. Now if we can find Vandelay and convince him that bob Smizik is indeed garbage and about as reputable of a source as a corpse... we might have something going on. :d

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As for the column itself what I found very laughable was the next sentence after what you highlighted -

Sure makes you wonder about his player-evaluation skills.

. Pushing aside that Smizik ignores what he wrote to spew forth his haterade induced agenda... What hyas Bob Smizik EVER done to warrant any credibility to judge one's talent evaluating? He's never done it himself. The guy in general is too lazy to ever present statistical analysis to back up his opinion. There's absolutely nothing that tells me that I should rely on Bob Smizik's "word" that someone else isn't a very good talent evaluator

[BGK]

If I have to hear one more idiot complain that we traded Nyjer ****in Morgan or Sean ****ing Burnette I am gonna ****ing lose my ****ing mind.

[Kipper]

If I have to hear one more idiot complain that we traded Nyjer ****in Morgan or Sean ****ing Burnette I am gonna ****ing lose my ****ing mind.

It's a shame. You would "think" that because of the successes of the Steelers and the Penguins that the media in this town would be above glorifying mediocre players or over valuing players....

...nope, it's like as soon as they begin to think about the Pirates all rational thinking and logic gets flushed down the drain so that stupidity and poor agendas can be spewed

[BGK]

It's a shame. You would "think" that because of the successes of the Steelers and the Penguins that the media in this town would be above glorifying mediocre players or over valuing players....

...nope, it's like as soon as they begin to think about the Pirates all rational thinking and logic gets flushed down the drain so that stupidity and poor agendas can be spewed

AMEN!!!!

Honestly, IMO, the only one of the guys we traded worth a **** was Jason Bay. And Ironically we probably got the worst return for him...hahaha

[Kipper]

AMEN!!!!

Honestly, IMO, the only one of the guys we traded worth a **** was Jason Bay. And Ironically we probably got the worst return for him...hahaha

the problem with Bay is exactly what Neal has outlined many times. He was older, and we didn't have control of him. Bay was ready to cash out big time and long term past his prime. Only an idiot would've NOT traded Bay and resigned him long term...

Problem with Bay is that we really didn't get much of anything out of that trade. all that remains with any semblance of potential is Andy LaRoche. Hansen is a long shot, Bryan Morris is a long shot, moss is a dud. ... but, every GM has misses, you just hope and want for your GM to have more hits than misses and we won't really know that regarding Huntington for a little while

[BGK]

the problem with Bay is exactly what Neal has outlined many times. He was older, and we didn't have control of him. Bay was ready to cash out big time and long term past his prime. Only an idiot would've NOT traded Bay and resigned him long term...

Problem with Bay is that we really didn't get much of anything out of that trade. all that remains with any semblance of potential is Andy LaRoche. Hansen is a long shot, Bryan Morris is a long shot, moss is a dud. ... but, every GM has misses, you just hope and want for your GM to have more hits than misses and we won't really know that regarding Huntington for a little while

Oh yeah, don't misunderstand what I said, I was all for trading Bay...I was just saying, to me, he was the only one who was actually worth something.

[Daskid]

The point that Smizik keeps trying to prove is that ownership values money over winning. His go-to example to make his case is that ownership failed to pony up to keep the 2007-2008 core together.

As buccoray touched on, that group peaked at 68 wins. While there were some popular players, they were still a bad baseball team. And most of that core group was traded away at the peak of their baseball careers. That was not a team primed for improvement.

If Smizik got his way, the Pirates would now have a 68-win team with a $60M-70M payoll, a core group now almost entirely over 30 years old, and Andrew McCutchen.

To replace those aging veteran players in the next few years they would have Pedro Alvarez, Brad Lincoln, Tony Sanchez and nobody else. There would be no Lastings Milledge, no Andy LaRoche, no Ross Olendorf, no Charlie Morton, no Jose Tabata, and no Tim Alderson.

I'd be willing to bet that the current group will sniff or even exceed those 68 wins, and do it with a younger average age, a much lower payroll, and infinitely more long-term upside.

Smizik is a moron.

[BGK]

haha, someone should email him a link to this thread...I would, but I think he has blocked my email address. haha

[buccoray61]

The point that Smizik keeps trying to prove is that ownership values money over winning. His go-to example to make his case is that ownership failed to pony up to keep the 2007-2008 core together.

As buccoray touched on, that group peaked at 68 wins. While there were some popular players, they were still a bad baseball team. And most of that core group was traded away at the peak of their baseball careers. That was not a team primed for improvement.

If Smizik got his way, the Pirates would now have a 68-win team with a $60M-70M payoll, a core group now almost entirely over 30 years old, and Andrew McCutchen.

To replace those aging veteran players in the next few years they would have Pedro Alvarez, Brad Lincoln, Tony Sanchez and nobody else. There would be no Lastings Milledge, no Andy LaRoche, no Ross Olendorf, no Charlie Morton, no Jose Tabata, and no Tim Alderson.

I'd be willing to bet that the current group will sniff or even exceed those 68 wins, and do it with a younger average age, a much lower payroll, and infinitely more long-term upside.

Smizik is a moron.

...


Great job,you worded what I was trying to say in a much superior way

[glscott57]

I interpreted the Smizik comment to focus only on the MLB team and not on the entire Pirates organization. I think he is right. I will take a healthy Wilson and Sanchez over Cedeno and Iwamura. I will take Adam over Clement. Batista and Andy are about a wash and Bay and McLouth are more productive than Moss and Milledge.

Daskid made the point before me. Smizik is pointing out that ownership always finds a justification to take the lower salary route.

[jnn123]

I interpreted the Smizik comment to focus only on the MLB team and not on the entire Pirates organization. I think he is right.

My biggest problem with it was that that may be Smizik's point in the article, but it has nothing to do with Russell's actual quote. Russell pretty clearly says that he's talking about the organization as a whole and not just the major league roster. One of the first things Smizik says is that Russell's quote has nothing to do with the minor league system when it clearly does.

[PittFaninVa]

My biggest problem with it was that that may be Smizik's point in the article, but it has nothing to do with Russell's actual quote. Russell pretty clearly says that he's talking about the organization as a whole and not just the major league roster. One of the first things Smizik says is that Russell's quote has nothing to do with the minor league system when it clearly does.

It just seemed to me that Smizik needed another anti-Pirate piece to advance his agenda so he went fishing and made up something that just wasn't there. IMO the article was a complete piece of crap but the guys who follow him on his blog sure ate it up!