Bryce Harper

[PittFaninVa]

I guess my question is if he continues this...what is your evaluation? Do you select him and give him the money?

I'm not in the postion to do the due diligence so I'm not sure....right now. Talent wise he's worthly of the pick but there are other factors involved if you want to make him the pick.

[BigBen2112]

I can only speak about my personal judgment here, but I think that IF Harper 1) continues down this path and 2) is an arrogant SOB...I still take him and pay him the money (again IF he continues down this path this would indicate his prospect status obviously).

Lets address some of the reasons:
1) He's absolutely mauling the ball at a young age against extremely high level of competition for his age--refer to PFVA's account of the junior college league as one of the best. Furthermore, refer to our discussion of Joe Mauer--pure hitting ability is something that simply cannot be taught...its instinctive etc and IF he has that then its clear that his value is enough to draft him...you also MUST remember that he's a H.S. junior essentially who is playing in a great junior college league...using a WOODEN bat...and blowing everything up. He's been impressive thus far that's for **** sure.

2) I am worried a little less about his defensive ability than others are because he is young enough and has a good enough arm to play a number of positions. The concern for me is IF he really IS a pure hitter...if he is then he's the real deal. Again, that ability you really almost can't teach.

3) People say that they would not have Manny Ramirez on their team. I think that's a bunch of horse****. Even those BOSox fans I know who hated him...only hated him in the sense that he finally did get traded...when he was there it was love-hate and they certainly loved him when he helped them win a WS and guess what? That's what the game is about...winning...and if Manny can help a team do that, in the end the distractions certainly do not hurt that and thus should and are put up with. Does that make his immaturity correct? No. But he gets paid to hit baseballs and help a team win games...and look at his track record. IF that's the type of player that Harper is then FINE...doesn't stop me from drafting him...consider that Tabata, Sanchez, McCutchen and others are "good guys" and thus like in Boston their are/would be other leaders who are good community guys so its not like the whole team would be corrupted and implode. I hate Manny Ramirez, but he's a winner and that's that...that's what he gets paid to do...that's how/why people go to the ballpark...that's how money is made...etc.

Conclusion:
Again, I will say that the emotional issues etc certainly are something to watch, but if they are more along the lines of what Kip said--arrogance and competitive drive/pride--then all the power to him...certainly it would be nice to nip that in the bud, but if not then oh well. If he's the real deal as a hitter then you take him...IF he's the real deal as a hitter then the Pirates won't have a shot at him anyways.

[PittFaninVa]

Ben… Harper has used aluminum in some non conference games.

[BigBen2112]

Ben… Harper has used aluminum in some non conference games.

Its possible that his stats are even better from that perspective. His conference, only, statistics are:
29 ABs, .552 BA, 16 R, 6 2B, 4 HR, 9 RBI, 1.172 SLG %, 7 BB, 4 K, .639 OBP, 3-3 SB...a ridiculous 1.811 OPS

The kid is absolutely destroying the competition right now...it almost makes you want the college game to be like the minor leagues...so he could move up and face Ranaudo, McGuire, Pomerantz etc...

[PittFaninVa]

Its possible that his stats are even better from that perspective. His conference, only, statistics are:
29 ABs, .552 BA, 16 R, 6 2B, 4 HR, 9 RBI, 1.172 SLG %, 7 BB, 4 K, .639 OBP, 3-3 SB...a ridiculous 1.811 OPS

The kid is absolutely destroying the competition right now...it almost makes you want the college game to be like the minor leagues...so he could move up and face Ranaudo, McGuire, Pomerantz etc...

Ben it appears you are now driving the Bryce Harper bandwagon....would he still be your choice if Ranaudo wasn't hurt?

[BigBen2112]

Ben it appears you are now driving the Bryce Harper bandwagon....would he still be your choice if Ranaudo wasn't hurt?

Well, a couple quick points. I am not convinced. You will see more enthusiasm from me about him now b/c I think I am actually being proven wrong about him. I thought he would struggle. I thought he'd not really prove any of the hype correct. However, I am impressed that a high school junior is absolutely mauling this high(er) level of competition like he is...and with wooden bats as well. I am still wanting to see more...I want to see it for a whole season. But, again as we've discuss here already IF he keeps this up all year then he almost has to go in the first 2-3 picks in the draft--depending on Taillon.

Another point, I have, for the most part, simply been arguing that you have to evaluate all factors, but if you determine that Harper IS a kid who will take instruction and learn, but also has a little "Manny Ramirez" to him you do not not select him for that. I think this is rational and correct.

Finally, to answer your question directly, it would depend on what Ranaudo was doing...how he was producing. However, if he was pitching like he did last year then I would probably say that the Pirates would/should take Ranaudo still. Why? For a couple reasons. First, I think that the Pirates should take the best player, sign him, and continue to draft in that fashion. I feel that RIGHT NOW Harper and Taillon are the best players in the draft--high school or otherwise--of course that could change. However, IF Ranaudo was pitching right now I think its completely possible that the top two players would be Harper and Ranaudo--which means that the Pirates should select whichever one is available.

I will say that as this draft is shaping up (early) it looks like there will be some steals in the bat department later in the draft. Chris Duffy, Blake Dean, Matt Gaudet, Joe Leonard, Connor Powers, Jake Overstreet, Danny Brock etc...which means I do not think they should overdraft a college bat in the first...they should take BPA which right now is either Taillon or Harper (I do not think they will take either of them) but ultimately could be Harper or Ranaudo (doubt they take Harper which leaves Ranaudo or McGuire realistically).

[PittFaninVa]

Joe Leonard from Pitt is an interesting player but as you send he'd be a later round pick.

[Kipper]

Well, a couple quick points. I am not convinced. You will see more enthusiasm from me about him now b/c I think I am actually being proven wrong about him. I thought he would struggle. I thought he'd not really prove any of the hype correct. However, I am impressed that a high school junior is absolutely mauling this high(er) level of competition like he is...and with wooden bats as well. I am still wanting to see more...I want to see it for a whole season. But, again as we've discuss here already IF he keeps this up all year then he almost has to go in the first 2-3 picks in the draft--depending on Taillon.

Another point, I have, for the most part, simply been arguing that you have to evaluate all factors, but if you determine that Harper IS a kid who will take instruction and learn, but also has a little "Manny Ramirez" to him you do not not select him for that. I think this is rational and correct.

Finally, to answer your question directly, it would depend on what Ranaudo was doing...how he was producing. However, if he was pitching like he did last year then I would probably say that the Pirates would/should take Ranaudo still. Why? For a couple reasons. First, I think that the Pirates should take the best player, sign him, and continue to draft in that fashion. I feel that RIGHT NOW Harper and Taillon are the best players in the draft--high school or otherwise--of course that could change. However, IF Ranaudo was pitching right now I think its completely possible that the top two players would be Harper and Ranaudo--which means that the Pirates should select whichever one is available.

I will say that as this draft is shaping up (early) it looks like there will be some steals in the bat department later in the draft. Chris Duffy, Blake Dean, Matt Gaudet, Joe Leonard, Connor Powers, Jake Overstreet, Danny Brock etc...[HIGH-LIGHT]which means I do not think they should overdraft a college bat in the first[/HIGH-LIGHT]...they should take BPA which right now is either Taillon or Harper (I do not think they will take either of them) but ultimately could be Harper or Ranaudo (doubt they take Harper which leaves Ranaudo or McGuire realistically).

Depends on whether they are eyeing specific players they've been scouting in the later rounds such as Pitchers. If that's the case, you could see an overdraft in the 1st.

Tough to really say right now. It's still so early, draft boards haven't come together yet, there's a lot of question marks. BA and BP usually get their main boards from talking to scouts. It's the individual Mocks that I ignore since they are comprised by "non-scouts"... So we've got a A LOT of time left. At this point I would say that just about everything is possible. I still don't feel confident at all that they will take a Pitcher in the First round and if Harper isn't there, they'll likely overdraft IMO... but pitcher, college or HS bat, overdraft etc.. are all possibilities at this point

[indybucfan]

Just don't draft another Chris Duffy. Please god no!

[cocktailsfor2]

If he's a competitive hot head, I personally don't care. I like guys that are competitive and cocky. Cocky players generally back it up even if they come across as *******s and who doesn't want someone that's competitive...

But the players that are pampered and spoiled are the ones that worry me. There's been SO many players in various sports that looked great and had hype and pampered and spoiled attitudes generally bury them...

Personality is a very important tool to evaluate. Very difficult one as well

This.
There's a difference between a red-*** and an *******.

[BigBen2112]

Depends on whether they are eyeing specific players they've been scouting in the later rounds such as Pitchers. If that's the case, you could see an overdraft in the 1st.

Tough to really say right now. It's still so early, draft boards haven't come together yet, there's a lot of question marks. BA and BP usually get their main boards from talking to scouts. It's the individual Mocks that I ignore since they are comprised by "non-scouts"... So we've got a A LOT of time left. At this point I would say that just about everything is possible. I still don't feel confident at all that they will take a Pitcher in the First round and if Harper isn't there, they'll likely overdraft IMO... but pitcher, college or HS bat, overdraft etc.. are all possibilities at this point

Yep lots of time. Its still worth getting some input though...from others like PFVA.

[wiggles]

If drafted he would not be fast tracked, thats for sure because of his age. You would probably see him isn short season at State college.

It also would be noce if we could see him play in one of those college summer leagues like cape cod, but that can't happen before the draft.

If taken # 1 it will be a while before we see him in the big's, where as Taillon and Ranuodo would be here much sooner. A risk definatly for big money.

[BigBen2112]

If drafted he would not be fast tracked, thats for sure because of his age. You would probably see him isn short season at State college.

It also would be noce if we could see him play in one of those college summer leagues like cape cod, but that can't happen before the draft.

If taken # 1 it will be a while before we see him in the big's, where as Taillon and Ranuodo would be here much sooner. A risk definatly for big money.

I am interested to know, just asking btw, why you think Taillon would be up before Harper. Hitters traditionally rise faster than pitchers first of all and secondly Taillon is a HS pitcher who has faced lesser competition than has Harper (yes Taillon is a little older, but i am not sure that can/would be the motivating factor for calling someone up).

[Shaker100]

A very glowing report on Harper is out on mlb.com:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb


I don't look for him to get past the Nationals.

[tocchet92]

"Ten months after Bryce Harper showed up on the cover of Sports Illustrated at age 16, we're getting the mounting sense that clubs at the top of this June's draft are almost beginning to look for reasons not to take this guy.

"Don't get me wrong. This kid projects as a starting catcher in the big leagues," said an executive of one of those teams. "But he's not the type of guy you want to pay three times the going rate for -- which is what Scott [Boras] is going to be looking for.

"I'll put it this way," the same exec went on. "With Alex Rodriguez, when you walked in to see him against high school competition, he separated himself. Ken Griffey separated himself. This kid is a good player. But he's not in a class with A-Rod and those guys. Not even close. … And with all the hype Scott has generated around him, he's going to walk in the door with a monkey on his back, and it's not going to ever go away."

No one disputes Harper's staggering raw power or arm strength. But the same exec said Harper's crazy numbers at the College of Southern Nevada (.426 average, .521 on-base percentage, 12 homers in 115 at-bats) should be taken with an entire shaker of salt.

"Yeah, he's got great numbers," the exec said. "But to be honest, I've seen better high school pitchers in the top programs than the guys he faced when I saw him. Every weekend, he's basically going against one decent pitcher and three stiffs. So his numbers are a little inflated."

Nevertheless, with no clear alternative, it's going to take some serious guts for the Nationals not to take Harper No. 1, considering all the buzz that's built around him. But of course, that's exactly what Boras had in mind when he unleashed that buzz."
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...umblings100408